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Author Topic: What's wrong with these roms ?  (Read 637 times)

PHoenix

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What's wrong with these roms ?
« on: 14 October 2021, 10:23 »

Hello  :D
I use the Arcade version for Mame (Link), new version 0.236 + clrmamepro 4.043 x64.

I have a problem with the following roms, since 3 or 4 Mame versions:
bm4thmix   (parent) / bs4thmix   (clone)
bmcompmx (parent) / bmcmxaac (clone)
wg3dh        (parent) / wg3dhfe    (clone)

The clones are always missing some files.
But they are incluced in the parents. But with different names, CRC is the same.
Instead of finding and renaming the needed files, clrmamepro is renaming the needed files with wrong name to the already existing ones.
So where is the mistake? Is Mame giving wrong infos? Or is clrmamepro making something wrong?


example 1:
   


You see, bs4thmix wants the files named 847kaa... , but clrmamepro wants to rename these files.
Best would be if bs4thmix would just use the parent files (bm4thmix) named 847jaa... , which are the same files just with a different name.



example 2:
   




example 3:
   

« Last Edit: 14 October 2021, 10:34 by PHoenix »
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Roman

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Re: What's wrong with these roms ?
« Reply #1 on: 14 October 2021, 11:53 »

do you keep your sets fully or split merged?
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PHoenix

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Re: What's wrong with these roms ?
« Reply #2 on: 14 October 2021, 12:06 »

I use split sets.

« Last Edit: 14 October 2021, 12:09 by PHoenix »
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Roman

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Re: What's wrong with these roms ?
« Reply #3 on: 14 October 2021, 12:48 »

There is no mistake.

It's pretty common that sets have byte-identical roms (or disks) but use a different naming in clones (since the original boards' IC names were different for example). That's why MAME uses 'merge' attributes in their -listxml output to show which files can be merged:

   <machine name="bs4thmix" sourcefile="djmain.cpp" cloneof="bm4thmix" romof="bm4thmix">
      <description>beatstage 4th MIX (ver KA-A)</description>
      <year>1999</year>
      <manufacturer>Konami</manufacturer>
      <rom name="847kaa01.6a" size="524288" crc="17c994e5" sha1="2249d9e788029d194454dc0552246262d4131e8c" region="maincpu" offset="0"/>
      <rom name="847kaa02.8a" size="524288" crc="25b2a690" sha1="90216cc7fbbaa8709eec348a7dcc5e25c7638b34" region="maincpu" offset="1"/>
      <rom name="847kaa03.19a" merge="847jaa03.19a" size="524288" crc="f447d140" sha1="cc15b80419940d127a77765508f877421ed86ee2" region="gfx1" offset="0"/>
      <rom name="847kaa04.20a" merge="847jaa04.20a" size="524288" crc="edc3e286" sha1="341b1dc6ee1562b1ddf235a66ac96b94c482b67c" region="gfx1" offset="1"/>
      <rom name="847kaa05.22a" merge="847jaa05.22a" size="524288" crc="da165b5e" sha1="e46110590e6ab89b55f6abfbf6c53c99d28a75a9" region="gfx1" offset="100000"/>
      <rom name="847kaa06.24a" merge="847jaa06.24a" size="524288" crc="8bfc2f28" sha1="f8869867945d63d9f34b6228d95c5a61b193eed2" region="gfx1" offset="100001"/>
      <rom name="847kaa07.22d" size="524288" crc="0528276a" sha1="ab4f2cdd2938a04f7da3e85f3cec9ca66c85b78a" region="k056832" offset="0"/>
      <rom name="847kaa08.23d" size="524288" crc="3c659505" sha1="ffa81d2f3823076a16422b49ac0ecfb0db376d54" region="k056832" offset="1"/>
      <rom name="847kaa09.25d" size="524288" crc="c078f7d3" sha1="2c268f1b7f1fa71c659d899a49e839128b789245" region="k056832" offset="100000"/>
      <rom name="847kaa10.27d" size="524288" crc="2f676be7" sha1="43d1844280117e76c95bb9b32ea3ca511fffc131" region="k056832" offset="100001"/>
      <disk name="847kaa01" sha1="be35c25d11892b57817ca9da90734a439d259824" region="ata:0:hdd:image" index="0" writable="yes"/>
....


Now clrmamepro supports both: A mode where merge attributes are ignored (so you'd have dupe files) or where it takes care of them. This option is: Profiler->Options -> Parse ROM 'merge' tags (similar 0for disks)

So you most likely have a clone set with such obsolete dupes with their original clone-names and now have that profiler option enabled (which is good).
Of course cmpro now complains about the wrong naming first (since now the merge-naming is needed) and wants to rename the files in the clones. Secondly, it will then complain about a wrong placement (since they do belong to the parent) and would move them.

Actually having all fix options enabled should simply fix your "problem".

The 4 files in question for bs4thmix for example are not required to run the game if you got the parent set with the files. If your not-official-mame-build audit reports it as missing, then something is wrong on that emulator side.
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PHoenix

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Re: What's wrong with these roms ?
« Reply #4 on: 14 October 2021, 13:36 »

OK. First BIG thanks for your effort.
I'm not sure if I understand correct.

So I have to turn of the parse ROM 'merge' option to make clrmamepro work correct for me?


bs4thmix doesn't work with missing these 4 847kaa... files, even with the complete partent bm4thmix,
just tried it with the original mame.exe:


The thing is the roms with with the needed files, but clrmamepro wants to change /delete needed files.
Never had such a problem for all the many years  :-\
« Last Edit: 14 October 2021, 13:39 by PHoenix »
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Roman

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Re: What's wrong with these roms ?
« Reply #5 on: 14 October 2021, 14:46 »

You should keep both profiler options ENABLED.

According to the definition below, bs4thmix does NOT need 847kaa03.19a plus the other 3 if the parent set holds 847jaa03.19 (and the other 3):

   <machine name="bs4thmix" sourcefile="djmain.cpp" cloneof="bm4thmix" romof="bm4thmix">
      <description>beatstage 4th MIX (ver KA-A)</description>
      <year>1999</year>
      <manufacturer>Konami</manufacturer>
      <rom name="847kaa01.6a" size="524288" crc="17c994e5" sha1="2249d9e788029d194454dc0552246262d4131e8c" region="maincpu" offset="0"/>
      <rom name="847kaa02.8a" size="524288" crc="25b2a690" sha1="90216cc7fbbaa8709eec348a7dcc5e25c7638b34" region="maincpu" offset="1"/>
      <rom name="847kaa03.19a" merge="847jaa03.19a" size="524288" crc="f447d140" sha1="cc15b80419940d127a77765508f877421ed86ee2" region="gfx1" offset="0"/>
      <rom name="847kaa04.20a" merge="847jaa04.20a" size="524288" crc="edc3e286" sha1="341b1dc6ee1562b1ddf235a66ac96b94c482b67c" region="gfx1" offset="1"/>
      <rom name="847kaa05.22a" merge="847jaa05.22a" size="524288" crc="da165b5e" sha1="e46110590e6ab89b55f6abfbf6c53c99d28a75a9" region="gfx1" offset="100000"/>
      <rom name="847kaa06.24a" merge="847jaa06.24a" size="524288" crc="8bfc2f28" sha1="f8869867945d63d9f34b6228d95c5a61b193eed2" region="gfx1" offset="100001"/>
      <rom name="847kaa07.22d" size="524288" crc="0528276a" sha1="ab4f2cdd2938a04f7da3e85f3cec9ca66c85b78a" region="k056832" offset="0"/>
      <rom name="847kaa08.23d" size="524288" crc="3c659505" sha1="ffa81d2f3823076a16422b49ac0ecfb0db376d54" region="k056832" offset="1"/>
      <rom name="847kaa09.25d" size="524288" crc="c078f7d3" sha1="2c268f1b7f1fa71c659d899a49e839128b789245" region="k056832" offset="100000"/>
      <rom name="847kaa10.27d" size="524288" crc="2f676be7" sha1="43d1844280117e76c95bb9b32ea3ca511fffc131" region="k056832" offset="100001"/>
      <disk name="847kaa01" sha1="be35c25d11892b57817ca9da90734a439d259824" region="ata:0:hdd:image" index="0" writable="yes"/>

so...check your rompaths again, it should look like (assuming you use zip files)

<your_rompath>\bs4thmix\847kaa01.chd
<your_rompath>\bm4thmix\847jaa11.chd
<your_rompath>\bs4thmix.zip with

847kaa01.6a
847kaa02.8a
847kaa07.22d
847kaa08.23d
847kaa09.25d
847kaa10.27d

<your_rompath>\bm4thmix.zip with

847jaa01.6a
847jaa02.8a
847jaa03.19a
847jaa04.20a
847jaa05.22a
847jaa06.24a
847jab07.22d
847jab08.23d
847jab09.25d
847jab10.27d

This is working in official MAME.



So maybe double check your rompath entry in mame.ini (if you don't have a mame.ini file, you can create one with mame.exe -cc)
« Last Edit: 14 October 2021, 15:10 by Roman »
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PHoenix

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Re: What's wrong with these roms ?
« Reply #6 on: 14 October 2021, 16:54 »

it should look like (assuming you use zip files)

<your_rompath>\bs4thmix\847kaa01.chd
<your_rompath>\bm4thmix\847jaa11.chd
<your_rompath>\bs4thmix.zip with

847kaa01.6a
847kaa02.8a
847kaa07.22d
847kaa08.23d
847kaa09.25d
847kaa10.27d

<your_rompath>\bm4thmix.zip with

847jaa01.6a
847jaa02.8a
847jaa03.19a
847jaa04.20a
847jaa05.22a
847jaa06.24a
847jab07.22d
847jab08.23d
847jab09.25d
847jab10.27d

This is working in official MAME.

No, like this it doesn't work !!!
For testing I 've used the official mame.exe from here: https://www.mamedev.org/release.html
I use mame.ini, Mame finds bm4thmix + bs4thmix ,
but even with complete bm4thmix romset it's missing the 874kaa... files for bs4thmix !!!!!

See:
   

It ONLY works with the official mame.exe, if I add the 874kaa03-06 to bm4thmix or bs4thmix.
Then all works fine with ArcadeMame and OfficialMame, but clrmamepro doesn't like it.
All other beatmania clone and other roms work, these 3 are the only ones that don't.

So it's seem to be a Mame mistake.
« Last Edit: 14 October 2021, 17:11 by PHoenix »
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Roman

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Re: What's wrong with these roms ?
« Reply #7 on: 14 October 2021, 17:37 »

Sorry but that's not correct. It was tested with exactly that setup and it runs fine.
where did you store your zipfiles and folders for the chds and how does your mame.ini looks like?

Easy scenario setup:

- create a new empty folder "A" somewhere
- unpack the official mame.exe (nothing more) in that folder "A"
- create a new folder in that folder "A" , name it "roms"
- put bm4thmix.zip, bs4thmix.zip and the subfolders bm4thmix and bs4thmix in that roms folder (the zips contain the files I've mentioned before, the subfolders hold the chds as mentioned before)
- open a commanline, switch to the folder "A", run "mame -cc" to create a mame.ini with default "roms" rompath
- run "mame bs4thmix" or "mame bm4thmix"
- both run fine


If you still got problems with that setup, your zipfiles (you're using zipfiles?) might have a problem. Then you can try to unpack the archives, delete the zip and pack the files to a new zip back. This can fix zip structure issues (unless you didn't get any unpack errors). Maybe the parent zip set is simply somehow corrupt and loading fails from there.
« Last Edit: 14 October 2021, 18:00 by Roman »
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PHoenix

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Re: What's wrong with these roms ?
« Reply #8 on: 15 October 2021, 07:43 »

folders:
   

batch:


command results:


You see in my pictures that I already used this commands. (Only difference with only using mame.exe is the plugin error.)
As you can clearly see that Mame finds both sets, bm4thmix + bs4thmix.
When trying to run bs4thmix Mame checks both romsets (!) but misses the 847kaa03-06 files, no other files are listed as missing, so bm4thmix is complete (as shown in the lines above anyway).
And the left pic shows the win explorer showing the folders with the files.
So there you can see that I don't use zips but only for romsets including a chd-file because having a folder anyway and files belonging to the chd-romset are always small.
It works like this for ALL other CHD romsets.
« Last Edit: 15 October 2021, 07:58 by PHoenix »
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PHoenix

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Re: What's wrong with these roms ?
« Reply #9 on: 15 October 2021, 08:01 »

Ah, ok, now i'm smarter:
If I zip the not-chd-files (as you recommended) it works:

      



But I prefer for CHD games to put all files unzipped in one rom folder together with the CHD file. Of course for normal romsets I use zips.
And it works (for me, Mame and clrmamepro) without zip for ALL OTHER CHD games, why not in these 3 cases ? ???
So there is a mistake somewhere, a bad handling. :-[
« Last Edit: 15 October 2021, 09:04 by PHoenix »
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Roman

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Re: What's wrong with these roms ?
« Reply #10 on: 15 October 2021, 12:09 »

If you keep files unzipped, you still need to follow the general storing procedure:

rompath\setname\file 1... file n (for unpacked sets)
rompath\setname.zip\file 1.. file n) (where file 1 to n is in the zip (or .7z))

That should work if it doesn't then you discovered a problem in MAME's loading mechnism for unpacked sets....


Update: Yes...it seems to be repeatable...seems to be a "lack of feature" in the MAME loading mechanism of unpacked sets.
« Last Edit: 15 October 2021, 13:49 by Roman »
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PHoenix

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Re: What's wrong with these roms ?
« Reply #11 on: 15 October 2021, 15:44 »

Yes...it seems to be repeatable...seems to be a "lack of feature" in the MAME loading mechanism of unpacked sets.
Ok, but it only makes problems when the filenames differs between split and merged sets, right ?
Should I report that somewhere to improve the MAME loading mechanism?
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Roman

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Re: What's wrong with these roms ?
« Reply #12 on: 15 October 2021, 15:47 »

yes, only when the names differ.

Actually I already talked with some devs about it and they do confirm that MAME loads decompressed files by name only (packed files by crc32)...and they only try one name :)
I doubt it's on anybody's list to fix that since using decompressed sets is very rarely used but if you like you can "raise a ticket" at mametesters :)
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PHoenix

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Re: What's wrong with these roms ?
« Reply #13 on: 15 October 2021, 16:09 »

Ok, but for me Mame works fine, clrmamepro is deciding wrong imo and makes wrong changings.
Would be great to get a fix in the next release  ;D
« Last Edit: 15 October 2021, 16:10 by PHoenix »
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Roman

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Re: What's wrong with these roms ?
« Reply #14 on: 15 October 2021, 16:43 »

Eh? No, cmpro is fully right in its doing. There is nothing to fix. cmpro follows the correct rules how the sets should be split up and which naming should be used.

MAME is "wrong" in this case. Or better, someone forgot this case when it tries to load decompressed sets....and why? Because noone except you seem to use it :)
If -at all- a program needs an update, then it is MAME...but again...noone seems to care.
« Last Edit: 15 October 2021, 16:49 by Roman »
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PHoenix

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Re: What's wrong with these roms ?
« Reply #15 on: 15 October 2021, 16:55 »

Hmmmm. But that's the way how Mame works and I thought clrmamepro wants to fit on MAMEs behaviour.
If Mame works fine this way but clrmamepro deletes or changes wrong files I see the fault definitely at clrmamepro.
Anyway the use of different files names for split and merge is totally strange, isn't it.
« Last Edit: 15 October 2021, 17:05 by PHoenix »
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Roman

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Re: What's wrong with these roms ?
« Reply #16 on: 15 October 2021, 17:07 »

erm...no it's not cmpro's purpose to "fit" MAMEs behaviour.

cmpro's purpose is to load a set collection xml definition (and there are thousand of dats which are not MAME related at all), follow specific storing rules and audit the files.

cmpro's storing rules are:
rompath\setname\file 1... file n for decompressed sets
rompath\setname.zip for compressed sets where file 1 to n is in the zip (or rar or 7z)
"name" and "merge" attributes define how the files are named.

The rules are followed, cmpro works correctly.

You clearly have to differ between emulators and auditing tools.
An audited set has nothing to do with playability in an emulator. If MAME kills the decompressed sets support completely, cmpro would not. cmpro supports rar files, MAME doesn't. So again...two programs, two worlds. MAME doesn't care at all about naming when in looks at compressed sets since it simply looks at the crc32 values...so should cmpro ignore wrong named files? No.

MAME devs already confirmed that it's lacking that special case...and the reason is simple: no one uses decompressed sets...no one reported yet the wrong behaviour, so feel free to either fix it or report it.

By the way, you can simply bypass the MAME issue by turning off the "parse rom merge tags" option and rescan/fix.
« Last Edit: 15 October 2021, 17:17 by Roman »
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PHoenix

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Re: What's wrong with these roms ?
« Reply #17 on: 15 October 2021, 18:23 »

By the way, you can simply bypass the MAME issue by turning off the "parse rom merge tags" option and rescan/fix.
Ok, sure, I understand, thanks.  :D
Could I get other problems instead if turning off this option ?
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Roman

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Re: What's wrong with these roms ?
« Reply #18 on: 15 October 2021, 18:47 »

You mean if you have sideeffects when turning off the option?
Well you will end up with some additional dupe roms (the ones which have a different naming while being byte identical). That‘s the only side effect.
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PHoenix

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Re: What's wrong with these roms ?
« Reply #19 on: 15 October 2021, 19:38 »

Ok, thanks for the infos, I think that's it.  :)
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